Flame of Shame: Heroine scores Olympic sized coupe in San Fransisco

One question: did this individual exhibit any involvement in the pro-Tibet movement before she was approached by Students for a Free Tibet? Or did she jump on this as a sexy human rights issue? If you want to work for Tibetan independence, do it from the inside - go to Tibet, see what it's like, work from the inside. Has anyone considered whether reporting by the Tibetan government in exile and pro-Tibetan activists is as skewed as reporting in the PRC?

ABC, if you are posting and critiquing US and PRC news coverage of Tibetan issues, please also post the coverage from the pro-Tibet activists and their interpretation of events, which is just as outlandish as the PRC perspective. For example, the Tibetan activist who was interviewed on ABC news and claimed that he and his friends were run over by the van carrying the Olympic flame? His story seemed to change and become even more elaborate with each sentence ("In fact, you can say that my friend even had to go to the hospital!"). If this was true, why was it not reported anywhere in the news media? What accounts for the differences in PRC and pro-Tibet news reporting? What are the sources for the information provided by pro-Tibet activists? Why assume that it is only the PRC which distorts the "facts?"

Michelle:

"did this individual exhibit any involvement in the pro-Tibet movement before she was approached by Students for a Free Tibet?"

I haven't personally interviewed her , but the news media who have suggest that she was not involved in the Tibetan independence movement until after she became involved in the torch procession, and that she was approached by pro-Tibetan groups whose stories persuaded her to take action quite recently. I don't think that somebody with a history of Pro-Tibetan activism would have been chosen to carry the torch in the first place.

"did she jump on this as a sexy human rights issue"

Certainly not, she was chosen for the torch run on the grounds that she was a notable campaigner in other areas. She already had an established history of civil and social campaigning, just not in relation to Tibet. Besides, there's nothing sexy about the Tibetan independence movement. It's not very high up the US campaign food chain.

"If you want to work for Tibetan independence, do it from the inside"

Sorry, but are you INSANE? You can't simply walk into Tibet and start campaigning for human rights. You'd be out so fast that your feet wouldn't touch the ground.

"Has anyone considered whether reporting by the Tibetan government in exile and pro-Tibetan activists is as skewed as reporting in the PRC?"

Yes, but that claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Most of what they say is backed by official reports from bodies like the UN. There will be some personal bias but, by and large, when people in Tibet say that they were tortured or abused, they are telling it like it is. Do you remember a while back when that video was released by foreign climber that showed a Chinese sniper picking off refugees?

"was it not reported anywhere in the news media?"

It was, it was on ABC news.

"please also post the coverage from the pro-Tibet activists and their interpretation of events"

I'm covering the event, not individual claims. I don't have time to research these claims in the detail required to verify most of them as being true or false. At the most I can give my opinions on them.

"What accounts for the differences in PRC and pro-Tibet news reporting"

If you read Beijing's accounts of events, Beijing puts the entire Tibet unrest issue down to a small group of foreign backed malcontents intent on causing harm and putting the Dali Lama on the throne of a theocratic Tibet. Beijing's account whitewashes the fact that the current unrest is a direct response to its own repression and dehumanization of Tibet, and that what we have here is just the tip of wider Tibetan resentment of the forced incursion of Han and Han culture on Tibet.

Put simply, Beijing is blaming everybody but itself.

ACB wrote, "Beijing's account whitewashes the fact that the current unrest is a direct response to its own repression and dehumanization of Tibet".

On whose account is that highly sensational news published without any substantial facts. First, if the religion is oppressed in Tibet, why is there still so many monks in Tibet. Again why are these so-called holy monks involved in the bloody massacre of innocents people. Second, if it's cultural genocide as Dalai Lama lies to the world, why is Tibet's culture currently enjoying the attention of the people in China itself as well as around the world. Third, isn't true to say that Tibet is experiencing a greater economic growth together with the rest of China. Fourth, only the blind can't see that Lhasa in Tibet is much well developed compared to any cities in India.

To ACB, your argument is nothing but hollow. Only you as a human (or are you) has mental blockage trying to understand China. Wake up, little boy ACB.

"Was it not reported anywhere in the news media?" It was, it was on ABC news. - It was only reported from the claim made by the activist, but *not* by a confirmed third party source. Majora Carter never had any involvement in the pro-Tibet cause until she was specifically approached by the activists - please, most people out there in London, Paris, and SF protesting probably even couldn't locate Tibet on a map. It's just a popular cause for people to jump onto a bandwagon and claim that they are involved in human rights - Richard Gere, anyone? It's an easy cause for people to claim that they are passionate about without actually having to exert any effort other than showing up with a Free Tibet banner at opportune moments. Please cite your statistics and information from the UN. "There will be some personal bias but, by and large, when people in Tibet say that they were tortured or abused, they are telling it like it is. Do you remember a while back when that video was released by foreign climber that showed a Chinese sniper picking off refugees?" Again, please cite your source. How do you know that people in Tibet are telling it like it is? Have you ever been to Tibet or done any research other than "giving your opinions?" How are ordinary Tibetans being abused and tortured? For all your comments about the incursion of ethnic Chinese into Tibet, do you realize that the tourist industry in Tibet is run completely by Tibetans? Sorry, but the accounts from Tibetan activists is just as biased as the Chinese- they just have a better PR machine than the PRC government which doesn't engage with foreign journalists. And even foreign journalists are wary of some of their Tibetan sources.

BeWay:

Well, I can go by the established fact of my own eyes and my own ears, and if that is not good enough I can go the the archives of the UN and see what has been written there over the decades.

On your first point, there are many monks in Tibet because taking the monks out of Tibet is like taking rice out of China. It's not in Beijing's interest to take them out, instead Beijing puts them through special education programs where they are encouraged to follow a watered down version of their traditional ways in the hope that they will pass these watered down ways on to the people. It is a form of cultural genocide. Tibetan monks are currently forbidden from making any nationalist expression or even from owning pictures of their spiritual leader.

As for the bloody massacres, well, all I can say is that they learned it from the Han. Monks are humans, and humans will only put up with so much before they become angry. Why do you think they became angry, it wasn't for all of the wonderful things that Han are meant to bring to them.

Secondly, it's not Tibetan culture, it's a watered down museum version. It is to Tibetan culture what in blue jeans, driving a Cherokee truck is to Native American culture.

Thirdly, economic development is meaningless to Tibetans because most are not experiencing it. Most of the wealth is being experienced by Mainland Chinese who have migrated to Tibet. The economic development is also coming at a high cost to Tibetans. Roads and rail links are being driven through grazing land, factories are polluting the rivers and the air. Tibet is worse of now than when it had low economic development.

Forthly, The Han in Lhasa outnumber the Tibetans. It is also much more developed than many areas of the Mainland.

Ashley

The odds are that unless you are a native Mainlander I was living in China long before you were. I'm not Han but China is in my heart and whatever Beijing says or does that is not going to change.

I'm also removing your details from my comment section. I do not permit the posting of personal details on my site. They are a spam engine magnet and leave you open to personal invasions by other web users.

On a closing note, I'd like you to look at your Tibetan friend and then to look at the local populace, and then to ask yourself whether the average person on the street could tell the difference. It's OK to be Chinese in China, just so long as you act in one voice with China. If she were to follow the old ways, life for her would be much harder.

Michelle:

Firstly, some protester got a couple of bruises off of an Olympic vehicle and it wasn't "verified" by the media, so what? It's not news. 300 Pro-Tibetan campaigners were sprayed with teargas in Paris after staging a sit-in, but no media report that I've seen carries even a single one of their names. You're picking up a trivial event that's no newsworthy enough to set a junior researcher on. Frankly, I'd have been surprised if anything more was printed than already was.

Secondly, why would people bother "jumping on the Tibet bandwagon", London and Paris are full of bleeding heart liberals. There's masses of more popular and easier to support charities about. I hear global warming is one of the latest buzz causes. You don't even have to turn up to the rallies for that one, you just turn you AC down a notch.

Lastly, what are your sources? I'm a source in myself, but who are you? Of course, since you won't take my word for it, would could try looking up the following documents from the UN human rights council.

E/CN.4/1996/35 E/CN.4/1996/38 E/CN.4/1996/40 E/CN.4/1996/95 E/CN.4/2002/24 E/CN.4/1994/NGO/23

Here is an excerpt from a 2005 report issued by UN Special Rapporteur Manfred Nowak which describes the use of torture on Tibetans

"The methods of torture alleged include, among others: beatings; use of electric shock batons; cigarette burns; hooding/blindfolding; guard-instructed or permitted beatings by fellow prisoners; use of handcuffs or ankle fetters for extended periods (including in solitary confinement or secure holding areas), submersion in pits of water or sewage; exposure to conditions of extreme heat or cold, being forced to maintain uncomfortable positions, such as sitting, squatting, lying down, or standing for long periods of time, sometimes with objects held under arms; deprivation of sleep, food or water; prolonged solitary confinement; denial of medical treatment and medication; hard labour; and suspension from overhead fixtures from handcuffs. In several cases, the techniques employed have been given particular terminologies, such as the "tiger bench", where one is forced to sit motionless on a tiny stool a few centimetres off the ground; "reversing an airplane", where one is forced to bend over while holding legs straight, feet close together and arms lifted high; or "exhausting an eagle", where one is forced to stand on a tall stool and subjected to beatings until exhaustion."

@ACB wrote, "It's not Beijing interest to take them (monks) out".

Now that's ridiculous. The fact is that the monks are a thorn to the Chinese Govt. If the Govt intends to implement "Religion prosecution", the monks will be removed in the first place but clearly or surprising, there are still thousands of monks in Tibet out of population of 3 millions. I'll have concur is that the Chinese Govt does respect the cultural and religion uniqueness of Tibet. The factual statistic is there that the Chinese Govt is telling the truth.

@ACB wrote, "watered down ways on to the people. It is a form of cultural genocide".

This is again unintelligible reason. So what has been waterred down in Tibetan traditional way of life. Is it slavery and serfdom as prasticed by Dalai Lama and his minority upper class? Or some dark practises of the lamas? If you ain't able to elaborate more details on what has being watered down, you shouldn't relate that to any genocide.

@ACB wrote, "As for the bloody massacres, well, all I can say is that they learned it from the Han"

Silly reason again. If monks aren't able to control its temper as well as show compassion to another human being, they are just false monks. Bastard, they damage my religion belief. Utter disgusting to these foolish false monks.

@ACB wrote, "Thirdly, economic development is meaningless to Tibetans because most are not experiencing it"

Again the reason is argumentative. From what I heard, the Tibetans themselves are reluntant to learn Chinese, the language that will propel them to participate in Tibet development growth. If you take the same case as a person in US without learning English, how much propect do you expect from him.

@ACB wrote, "The Han in Lhasa outnumber the Tibetans"

What's the overall statistic of Han in Tibet? BBC quoted a figure of 92% Tibetans and 8% Chinese (Han and Hui) in the whole Tibet. Now your argument just fall flat on your face.

In summary, the fact denotes that ACB is just some forked-tongue Dalai Lama cohorts, desperately working on with some dirty ulterior motive. There is hope that Lord Buddha will punish all these slimming dirty creatures so as to avoid further chaos and bloodshed in Tibet.

I smell denial here.

1) It's not in Beijing's interest to "take out" the monks. What would it do, kill them? Beijing wants the monks to sit quietly and to spread a watered down version of Buddhism that will placate the people. If it just exterminated them it would face a backlash from the international community, and even from many Mainlanders whom would not be able to stomach it.

2) That applied equally to Han society right up until around the 1970s. I can also elaborate. Firstly, Beijing has placed requirements on monks as to which parts of tradition they are permitted to follow. They cannot follow anything that encourages nationalism or which defines Tibetan culture over Han culture, they are also forbidden to follow the teachings and practices of the Dali Lama. In fact they are forbidden to have his photograph or to have a recording of his voice.

3) In the West they had these monks known as the Knights Templar. They committed some of the bloodiest massacres of the age but had the backing of the religious establishment. I'd say to you that if Beijing can invoke the wrath of a monk then it must be doing something superhumanly wicked. Remember, the Dali Lama teaches peace, but these men have not been allowed to follow him. Maybe if Beijing had allowed the Dali Lama to return long ago these monks would have learned his peace rather than Beijing's false peace.

4) Why would a Tibetan want to learn Mandarin? Shouldn't it be the other way round. If a Chinese came to America and refused to learn English, they would end up working in the kitchen of their uncles restaurant for the next 10 years, if Mandarin speakers wish to do business in Tibet, then they should learn the local language.

5) Actually, your argument never even stood up. Lhasa is the capital of Tibet and Han outnumber the native population.

Maybe you should take a look at the membership of Lhasa party committee. 26% are Tibetans, the rest are Mainlanders and last year the ethnic Tibetan party secretaries were removed from 54 out of 74 regional bodies and were replaced by people of either Han or other Mainland ethnic groups.

@ACB,

For unity sake, China has the right to take all measurements to ensure the territory integrity of the country. Only the naive doesn't know that the root of the problem lies with the monk. It's not a question whether China is afraid of taking punishing action against the monk. If Mao is still around, rest assured all these political monks will have disappear overnight. It'll be more acceptable to say that China is patient and tolerance enough to keep the Tibetan monks alive and kicking as they don't want to cause chaos and destruction as the earlier years.

China is getting properous everyday. All Chinese are grateful that their standard of living has gradually improved to a level that they can only dream of it earlier. The common people have the freedom to choose and decide what is best for them. The Chinese in the long years of suffering under Mao's era, have been the most optimistic of their government.

Now we can't say that for the Dalai Lama. If he is a man of peace, he should let the burden of yesteryears to stop. Let his people go free. Freedom from the captivity of religion. Let them take the opportunity to enjoy a better standard of living. To continue to fight against China is just exercise in futility without realising that Tibet will not be independence anytime in future. How much longer will Dalai Lama continue to subject the Tibetans into an unknown trails of destruction. The destiny of the Tibetans depends on the selfless righteousness of one person. We hope that his claim of being a religious man will not cause the death of his own people.