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Yasukuni Shrine: A Problem With No Single Solution

posted Tuesday, 1 November 2005
Yasukuni Shrine; the site of Japan's national war memorial, is probably not only one of the greatest bumps on the road to peaceful Sino-Japanese co-existence, but also one of the most controversial shrine in the modern age, but, if the latest developments in Tokyo bear fruit, its days might finally be number.

After many years of public and private debate, and nearly 25 years of protests by neighboring China, it has been announced that Tokyo is to form a cross party committee of 100+ lawmakers, drawn from all sides of Japan's political system, to once and for all deal with the thorny issue of providing Japan with an internationally acceptable national war memorial that is free of the controversies that have wracked Yasukuni.

The formation of the new committee, titled the "group of pushing forward establishment of national memorial facility" was announced on Friday after Japan's ruling coalition, lead by Prime Minister 小泉's (Koizumi’s) center right 自由民主党 (Liberal Democratic party), met with the left leaning opposition 民主党 (Democratic Party). The committee is scheduled to convene on 9 November to debate how best to push forward the dream of creating of a war memorial that is acceptable both to domestic and international audiences. However, as with most contentious issues, the path to a resolution is not expected to be easy.

Even as officials prepares to debate what should be done to resolve 'the Yasukuni problem' some serious questions are being asked by delegates and observers alike. Questions that stretch far beyond the debate over what shape any new war memorial should take, and which include whether would China ever be prepared to see whatever 'solution' eventually emerges as being acceptable, no matter what form it took? And as to whether the construction of a new memorial might actually make things worse, rather than better?

Three Tenets

Though there are many different issues to be debated, and many different factions within Japan and China to be considered, in order to win the approval of the widest possible audience, any solution to 'the Yasukuni problem' would likely have to follow three basic tenets.

Tenet 1: Clean Break

The new memorial should be 'clean' remembering only 'ordinary' soldiers; Soldiers who were not convicted of committing or ordering war crimes.

Tenet 2: Clear Boundaries

The new memorial should be secular so as not to fall foul of Article 20 of the Japanese constitution; which prohibits the convergence of church and state, and to give the state a greater measure of control over the memorial; allowing memorial affairs to be linked to the need to preserve international relation in a way not currently possible with Yasukuni.

Tenet 3: Remembrance before glory

The new memorial should be solely for the purposes of remembering the dead, and the promotion of peace through the remembrance of loss and sacrifice. It should not justify, glorify or otherwise promote acts of aggression or those who perpetrated them.

Though apparently simple, each of these tenets in turn raises many questions and potential pitfalls, and must take into account the views of divergent groups with different arguments as to what they see as a viable solution.

Remembering the guilty?

One of the key hopes, voiced by proponents of a new national memorial, is that by constructing a memorial that does not name convicted war criminals, a clear line can be drawn between the remembrance of ‘ordinary’ war dead and activities that include, or are aimed at, convicted war criminals: allowing people to perform acts of remembrance that cannot be misrepresented as acts of glorification, and resulting in a shrine that is free of much of Yasukuni's controversy.

Observers have however pointed out that removing the legacy of war criminals is not as simple as excluding the names of those convicted of war crimes from war memorials. A situation that largely exists because there are a number of different groups, within both in Japan and China, that hold different individuals to be guilty or innocent, and which express various contradictory opinions on what they see as an acceptable solution.

Three clear examples of this complication are the issues surrounding Chinese war crimes tribunals, American interference, and Japan's hierarchical system.

After WWII, China conducted thirteen war crimes tribunals. These tribunals tried a total of 650 cases and resulted in 504 convictions. 149 of which resulted in the imposition of the death penalty.

Critics have however claimed that China's tribunals were bias and that they required a lower standard of proof from modern tribunals; leading them to have been unfairly weighed against Japanese defendants and resulting in people being wrongly convicted of war crimes, or being convicted of a crime that they merely observed, but which they neither ordered nor could have prevented.

Conversely, watchers of both China and Japan have voiced that China's war crimes tribunals were hampered by a lack of evidence in relation to who was guilty of what, by uneven access to those accused of war crimes, and by poor accounts of some war crimes brought about by poor communications and the fact that many of the potential witnesses were dead. Leading to some Japanese war criminals escaping punishment, and potentially being unjustly listed on a 'clean' memorial alongside regular soldiers.

Another factor effecting the definition of war criminals is the fact that the US is known to have 'recruited' many Japanese into its ranks after the war; offering them amnesty in exchange for often gruesome information that America could use to further its own ends.

The most obvious example of this was when Washington directly interfered in the process of post war justice by illegally giving amnesty to several 'would be' notorious war criminals who were part of Japan's chemical and biological warfare units; offering them their lives and freedom in exchange for records on the murderous campaigns that they had been conducting against the Chinese. This interference allowed many war criminals to escape trial, and would technically allow them to be named on a 'clean' memorial despite their actual guilt.

Similarly, Washington is known to have offered full or partial amnesty to a number of German war criminals in exchange for their assistance in developing the rocketry systems.

The last of the main complications is that wartime Japan maintained a system that was split between the country's traditional hierarchical and a conventional power based system. This system meant that some of those convicted of criminals may have been symbolic figures who existed only to 'sign and stamp' decisions made by the power base, and that some of those who were convicted may have been 'stand ins' who took the blame in order to spare senior members of the hierarchy or power base who committed war crimes. Both of which arguably mean that any number of guilty men may have escaped the tribunals, while innocent ones were found guilty in their place.

It is throughout highly unlikely that China would fully accept a new memorial if it believed that guilty men were named there, or that Japanese nationalists and nationalist leaning moderates would fully accept it if they believed that innocent men were excluded from it because of these disagreements. Further complicating matters, and making the finding of a solution that would be acceptable to all parties almost impossible.

Contrary beliefs promulgated by some, Japan and the Japanese Government bear no responsibility for war criminals escaping justice. As a defeated nation that surrendered unconditionally, Japan played no formal part in the trial of its own war criminals. Guilt or innocence was determined by tribunals conducted wholly by China and the western allies, and not by Japanese courts.

Similarly, Germany war criminals were not tried by German courts, but by an international tribunal over which Germany itself held no control.

Shrine or Memorial?

Over the years, there have been many calls for Tokyo to deal with 'the Yasukuni problem'. However, many of these calls, particularly those from foreigners, failed to take into account the fact that the Yasukuni war memorial was built inside a religious shrine, putting it, for the most part, beyond direct state intervention.

This situation exists because, after WWII, Japan adopted a strong pacifist constitution that guaranteed the separation of Church and state. Preventing one from interfering, or influencing, the running of the other.

This clause, and a number of related laws outside of the constitution, were originally written to prevent subsequent Japanese governments from using religion as a political tool and religious bodies from wielding political power, as had been done during WWII, as well as to prevent the state from interfering in free religious expression. Unfortunately, these laws have also prevented successive Japanese administrations from imposing a solution on Yasukuni, or from acting directly against nationalist minority agitators who sought to infiltrate the shrine for their own ends.

The trouble caused by this divergence of control was most recently highlighted in June of 2005, when senior lawmakers from Japan’s ruling coalition, speaking in response to strong protests from China, tabled that the names of the most notorious war criminals should be taken from the national war memorial in Yasukuni and moved to a separate location.

Citing laws prohibiting state interference in religious matters, nationalists and religious elements within the shrine refused to comply. Leaving the Government powerless to act.

Such a separation of church and state is not unique to Japan. As Tokyo has no power to intercede in the running of Yasukuni, so the governments of most western democracies have no power over intercede in the affairs of churches, temples, mosques or synagogues. As with Tokyo, most also have no ability to replace religious leaders if they are found to harbor views that go against national policy or harm foreign relations, and have no legal authority with which they can demand the removal of a convicted war criminal from a religious cemetery or memorial in their own countries.

Owing to the problems caused by Yasukuni’s protected status, it is thought highly likely that any replacement would take the form of a secular memorial rather a new shrine. Allowing Tokyo to have the last word on inclusion, leaderships and image.

Designating a new war memorial as being secular, and placing it outside of a religious site, would have the added advantage of creating a clear distinction between religious and non religious activities that is not possible with Yasukuni, and would additionally remove one of the main weaknesses in the international perception of Yasukuni; that currently it is almost impossible to determine who is visiting the shrine because it is an prominent shrine, who is visiting it because it is a war memorial, and who is visiting it with nationalist intents.

The suggestion that a new national memorial might not be a shrine has predictably not been without its critics. Some have questioning whether religious ceremonies in remembrance of the dead would be permitted on a secular site, and as to whether relatives, particularly older more traditional relatives, of those named would be happy offering remembrance for the dead at secular memorial rather than a religious one.

Suggestions of a secular memorial also do not to sit well with many of Japan’s Buddhist and Shinto priests.

Japan does one thing, but China sees another.

While there are a great many physical problems with Yasukuni that must be addressed in order to promote Sino-Japanese reconciliation, one of the greatest problems is that Chinese perceptions of Yasukuni vary greatly from Japanese perceptions of Yasukuni. Making it very difficult for the two sides to see eye to eye; meaning that what China perceives as happening does not always mesh with what Japan is doing, and the symbolism of an event seen through Japanese eyes can appear to be very different when seen through the Chinese understanding of events.

As such, there are a great deal of misconceptions about Yasukuni in China, and the task of ensuring that these misconceptions are not merely transferred to the new memorial is likely to be a large hurdle for Tokyo. Unfortunately, Japan has a very poor record in this direction.

When faced with criticism based on ignorance or a cultural misunderstanding, Tokyo has a tendency to withdraw and refuse to engage in any kind of resolutionary dialogue. This often leads to the promulgation of myths that could have been excised through dialogue, and to accusations that a problem is being ignored or denied.

Tokyo also has a record of basing any new apologies or rebuttals on prior statements which themselves were not excepted at the time that they were made. A move which seems logical and acceptable in Japanese culture because it does not break consensus, but which brings leaves little room for diplomatic manoeuvring and, again, leads to accusations that a problem is being ignored or denied.

Additionally, owing to the Chinese concept of face; under which form and image are considered to be as important, if not more so, than substance, dealing with conflicts of understanding with China it is often best undertaken from a lower stance that allows China to gain face and to come away from any divergence of interests with something that it can play to be a victory even if it is not. Conversely to this logic, Japanese responses to Chinese issues over Yasukuni and related issues have often been made using neutral Japanese parlance and have often cited Japan’s current stance as being a version of its past stance. Leaving China with few avenues to gain face except to modify its tone to make it appear stronger than its opponent. This leads to unnecessary confrontations and a poor resolution rate.

Owing to this lack of constructive dialog, many Chinese harbor inaccurate perception about Yasukuni that have been promoted by Chinese nationalists, and reinforced by Japanese nationalists.

Current Misconceptions include that Buddhist like ancestor worship is carried out at Yasukuni and that the Shrine glorifies war dead, rather than mourns their loss.

A lack of understanding of Japanese culture and Yasukuni’s true purpose also means that many in China are also either unable or unwilling to distinguish between shrine attendance for festivals and religious reasons that are unconnected to war dead, and those that are, and those that are aimed at ‘ordinary’ soldier but not at the war criminals who make up a fractional minority of those named there.

These misconceptions and misunderstandings are often aggravated further because those who do speak up the most are often from Japan’s discredited nationalist minority, who have a vested interest in souring Sino-Japanese relations, so as to promulgate their own combative ideologies, and Chinese nationalists, who have a similar self serving agenda.

Counter Productive

Flying in the face of many domestic and international opinions, that addressing the issue of Yasukuni by building a 'clean' memorial would help to ease tensions between the two Asian neighbors, some observers have voice a strong fear that the dedication a new memorial may actually end up inflaming the Sino-Japanese relationship rather than improving it.

In the deference of their views, observers have advised that the dedication of a new memorial could potentially provoke a serious backlash among Japanese nationalist who say that the new memorial goes to far, and among Chinese nationalists who say that the memorial does not go far enough.

Some observers have voiced that that, if an alternative was constructed, Japanese nationalists would likely step up their efforts to promote Yasukuni, and that the construction of a new memorial could potentially act as a highly effective recruiting call; lending apparent credence to nationalist claims that Tokyo was 'surrendering Japanese dignity to appease a hostile foreign power'.

Drawing from history, it has been proven time and again, where nationalist elements are concerned, that the banning or removal of symbols, or attempts to replace them with less symbolic elements, often serves to fuel nationalism rather than to reduce it. This particularly true if said nationalist symbols are either with associated 'a time of pride and strength' or where they can be associated with a loss that is being denied. Both of which could be said to be true of Yasukuni.

This phenomena has been extremely evident in post war Germany, where efforts to eradicate nationalism have actually lead to its increase in some areas, and where efforts to eradicate the Nazi legacy by banning its symbols, and acting to suppress Nazi activities, have been used by as rallying cries to recruit successive generations of Nazi.

Additionally, observers have also warned that that Chinese nationalists, many of whom base their arguments on the contorted perceptions that Japan is a hostile nation, may reject any new memorial outright; saying that it does not sufficiently address the problems created by Yasukuni, and that the new site is little more than a smokescreen designed to allow Japan to fool outsiders into thinking that it had acquiesced.

If this were to happen, Sino-Japanese relations would not only be faced with the spectre of Yasukuni, but also claims that Tokyo had tried to whitewash the issue by creating an insubstantial replacement to allow it 'to carry on as before' while saying that it wasn't.

Concerns over a backlash form Chinese nationalists, who do not accept that a new memorial is a clean break from Yasukuni, are seen as being particularly valid by some because of the international opinion that many nationalists in China have ‘internalized’ mindsets with regards to Japan and Yasukuni; mindsets that would remain fixed regardless of any action taken by Tokyo.


"Once your mind-set is internalized, you develop this twisted conception of the world, and you select what you want to see to support your [own] understanding,"

Yu Maochun, Professor, US Naval Academy, Speaking after Anti-Japanese riots in China.



In such cases, even an unconditional surrender to all demands may be seen as insufficient or insincere by Chinese nationalists, and would hold the potential to cause a volatile backlash similar in type and scale to the anti-Japanese riots witnessed earlier in 2005.

Side Issues?

It is not yet clear if any new national memorial would include only Japanese soldiers, or it would include 'subjects of Japan'; soldiers drawn from Chinese Taiwan (Then Formosa), and the Korean Peninsular, during Japanese rule.

In some cases, the inclusion of ‘subject of Japan’ in Yasukuni has been welcomed by relatives of the dead, and in other cases it has been decried.

Nationalists and seperatists in Chinese-Taiwan have additionally been known to have used the inclusion of Taiwanese in Yasakuni in their effort to draw Japan in between China and the island. Using the controversial shrine to try and form links of solidarity between Chinese-Taiwan and nationalists in Japan.

These moves have been decried as being 'dangerous' by some observers.

Coments on this entry must be approved before publication, only reasoned comments from people with open minds need apply. Those seeking to propograte nationlist Japanese or Chinese view points or to attack what they do not understand are not welcome.

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1. sun bin left...
Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:05 am :: http://sun-bin.blogspot.com

This is a great recap.

1. Despite the extremist noise you heard in China, the Chinese culture does respect bravery of its enemy. If you have read Romance of the Three Kingdom, you would know what I mean. Cao Cao, in particular lured all the captured general who had almost killed him with a desperate meritocracy attitude. Therefore, I do believe China would accept the right for the Japanese to honor those who were died in the war. and not neccessarily promoted war or commited crime themselves.

2. I know the complications of what defines 'war criminal'. There is only one pragmatic solution. For both sides to accept the Military Tribunal verdict. I think the current governement in China would be pragmatic enough to accept that. However, that is not to say there won't be more dispute in other areas, such as textbook. But at least we get rid of one obstable/"excuse".

3. My worry though, is this new effort will not be accepted in Japan. Mainly, as you have said, because some Japanese do not accept the judgment of the Military Tribunal. I am not sure how strong such sentiment is, I suspect it is prtty strong. What is your estimate?

ACB’s Response

It’s good to hear that there are still rational people who can discuss this issue without it turning into a nationalist free for all. This is a very hard topic to raise without bringing nationalists from both sides out of the woodwork.

1) While I know that many Chinese do respect Japan’s right to remember its dead, and that they do accept that not everybody is wicked and villainous, I’m just a bit angered that it is so common for the Chinese media and text books to blur the lines between war criminals and non war criminals, and acts aimed at the remembrance of the dead and acts that are the blatant glorification of monsters and butchers (which are exceedingly uncommon).

3) It would indeed be nice if people accepted things and I do try to make peace in this area when discussing things with my Mainland Chinese friends, but the tribunal verdicts were flawed. China was bias against the people that it convicted in some cases, but didn’t have the evidence that it needed to convict everybody, and Washington robbed some people of justice by giving amnesty to vile people who used chemical and biological weapons on China.

If you just accept the verdicts, I believe that they will simmer on far longer than if they were brought out into the open and allowed to be resolved, which is the nnumb of many of the Sino-Japanese WWII issues.

3) I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Japanese nationalists make the headlines in China and the US ever other week, but the coverage that they receive is out of all proportion to their actual strength. Nationalist in Japan are discredited jokes, they drive around places like Osaka in white vans with loudspeakers on top and call people to arms against an enemy that doesn’t exist. They are sort of like the redneck white power groups that boo black baseball player during the World Series. They are impotent and have little or no public support, but they shout loudly and make a scene in a country where moderates and liberals don’t speak out against them often enough. Their power lies only in their ability to shout loudly.

Most Japanese know the truth about WWII (the REAL truth, as opposed to the whitewashed nationalist version because Japanese teachers are more likely to be liberals than nationalists, and you can walk into any good bookstore and pick up a dozen books about Japanese war shames written by Japanese authors like Honda Katsuichi, who tell things as they were) and feel sad about what went on, but they don’t get up and protest. The nationalists, however, do so you see them more often despite them being a minute proportion of the population. They also have a very big ability to make China angry.

If you don’t want to take my word for it, in a number of recent surveys those who wanted to make peace with China and who considered China to be a friend outnumbered those who wanted conflict, and as did those who said that Prime Minister Koizumi to stop his shrine visits in order to save relations with China.

There have also been regular protests against whitewashing text books (currently the is only one controversial text book and 0.4 of schools use it, making it an abysmal flop).


2. sun bin left...
Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:16 am :: http://sun-bin.blogspot.com

So far all the complains from China have been targeted at PM visiting Yasukuni. There are some who complained about the existence of the shrine, but the rationals undertand it is freedom of expression, even though theyh hate it. So, as long as there is no governemnt endorsement of the shrine, it is very likely China will welcome the new alternative.

However, i believe there will still be many LDP legislators going to Yauskuni. That will still trigger minor complain from China, if compounded with other issues (eg textbook, taiwan). But at least that will not shut off high level mutual understanding. (e.g. If Aso visits the shrine, meeting with him will be cancelled. But that won't affect the meeting with Abe or Koizumi)

ACB's Responce

If you look at Chinese culture, it’s pretty logical to see why. China is a top down society where the leaders take prominence. Saying that ordinary Japanese go to the shrine would be like saying that dogs and cats go.

What is sad though is that most Chinese news agencies don’t actually make a point of saying that Prime Minister Koizumi doesn’t make pilgrimages to Yasukuni, but citizen Koizumi does. In China’s mind if a leader attends then he represents his county whether or not it is a state occasion or not.


3. sun bin left...
Thursday, 3 November 2005 5:27 am :: http://sun-bin.blogspot.com

Yu Maochun quote has certain truth applicable to certain subset of the population, in China, Taiwan and Japan.

But I would not read too much into Yu's other comments. He seems to be on the end of the separtist/extremist spectrum from Taiwan that you described in your final paragraphs.


4. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:11 pm

Sun Bin:

You're right, I am firm in the belief that Yu suffers from the very same internalization that he was speaking about.

The quote actually came from a deposition that he made to congress on the dangers of Anti-Japanese riots turning against America, but the idea is easily transferable. Whatever Japan does, there will always be nationalists who see it through a pane of glass with their own world view painted on it.


5. sun bin left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 3:04 am :: http://sun-bin.blogspot.com

Yes, there will always be. Just like we cannot stop the far-right who run Yasukuni from doing what they do.

But that is not the reason to resign from communicating and making compromises. Efforts like this one in your post will definitely shift a significant % of the popular view, and reducing the support for the extremist views in China.


6. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 4:52 am :: http://angrychineseblogger.blog-city.com

Actually, Yasakuni isn't really run by far right loons. A lot of the people there are just ordinary priests, they want the war criminals to be there because they believe that everybody should be there without exception if they fought for Japan. Not because they want to engage in some kind of sick glorification of war criminals.

Its more that the spokespeople are the rightist and thus they are the ones who get heard the most. As I said earlier, they shout loudly in a country where people are taught not to shout at all.

What is almost unique in Yasakuni's case is that the far right aren't supermisists. In any other country, the far right would say that only pure bloods should be in the shrine.

The rightists actually want Taiwanese and Koreans to be there, but if Yasakuni was in America (for example), the local rightists would be trying to oust the blacks and mixed race people.

It just goes to show that Japan has to be contrary.


7. john left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 5:31 am

I suspect the Japanese want something to honor its soldiers killed during WWII. With all the horror associated with that war due to actions of MANY Japanese soliders, however, I don't think it anything can be done to "honor" them.


8. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 6:12 am

John

It all depends on your definition of the word honor.

You can ‘honor’ Japanese soldiers by remembering them and by mourning their deaths.

You can ‘honor’ them by pledging a not to repeat the mistakes of the past.

You can ‘honor’ them by remembering their bravery even if it was misplaced.

In fact you can honor a Japanese soldier in man ways without glorifying what he did or the war that he fought.

Maybe I should turn things around. Don’t think of China and Japan, think of the Unionists and the Confederates. America still ‘honors’ its confederate soldiers even though they fought to perpetuate slavery and to prevent the US as you know it from existing.

MANY Japanese also died defending Japan during the last year or so of the war. They committed no war crimes, they invaded no other countries, in fact many never even left Japanese territory.

Would you hold these people to the same level that you hold Tojo and his fellow butchers?


9. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 6:21 am

You might not know this, but Yasukuni is a war shrine, not a military memorial. It includes women and children, civilians who committed no crimes.

Among those named in Yasukuni are several hundred female students who volunteered to remain behind on Okinawa when it was overrun by the US and several hundred grade school students who died when their evacuation ship was torpedoed by the allies.

This is one of the reasons that Yasakuni is see as legitimate in Japan.


10. kushibo left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 11:14 am :: http://kushibo.blogspot.com

I found your take on this quite interesting, and I will probably link to it on my blog.

I think one of the problems with this issue is that a lot of people--including average Japanese--don't really know what is actually promoted at Yasukuni, not just as symbolism but as clearly worded ideology. Many apologists for Japan think it is merely a memorial for war dead but the museum on the grounds promotes a self-serving and amnesia-ridden justification for Japanese aggression. Critics of the museum focus so heavily on the class-A war criminals enshrined there in the late 1970s that they ignore the far more egregious content being actively promoted.

Japan needs to make a clean break from this, but the far-right knows that clean break will weaken them. This could get nasty.


11. dishuiguanyin left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 2:47 pm

Good work ACB, good work. Very detailed analysis of many issues. My comments are:

1) You keep saying that Japan is bad at international dialogue. Maybe so, but they seem to be getting better at it. Example: strong Japanese participation in the recent 6 party talks. Japan and the DPRK are currently having bilateral talks in Beijing about the DPRK abduction of Japanese citizens.

2) Of course the media won't say "ordinary citizen Kozumi visited the shrine". Come on. Did the British media say "ordinary father Mr Blair had some trouble with a drunken teenage son"? Of course they didn't, they said "Prime Minister's son is out of control". Once you've been elected to/appointed to a high office, you don't get given any time off to be an "ordinary citizen". And finally:

3)I still want to know something more about the Yasukuni Shrine Museum. You know, the one that perpetrates the nationalist propoganda that Japan was forced into the war by America, and that it was only "establishing order and control in" China and Korea. Who runs that? Is it under the control of the government or of those nice Shinto priests? Can it be changed? Does anybody want it to be changed? Awaiting your next article.

PS Why isn't this on your mirror?


12. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Friday, 4 November 2005 5:06 pm

Dishuiguanyin, long time no see Dishuiguanyin-senpai.

1) Japan is appalling at international dialog with China, it tries to approach everything from angles that make it difficult for China to win face from without being confrontational. Japan keeps repeating past arguments but China never accepted the original ones so why would it accept them a second time round. Japan is also rather bad at appeasement for the sake of face. It knows that a lot of China’s accusations are off base so it ignores them rather than trying to soothe China. This makes China defensive and angry.

2) In Japan there is a HUGE difference when it comes to Yasukuni. Prime Minister Koizumi can’t go to Yasukuni in any official stance, this is forbidden by article 20 of the constitution (church and state clause), when he goes he goes to pay homage and to mourn on behalf of himself and not the nation. It might not seem much of a difference but it is a very important distinction.

3) There are several museums inside Yasukuni; they are run by nationalists and nationalist leaning moderates. These museums are on religious ground and under religious jurisdiction. Article 20 forbids the government from interfering. These museums can say anything that they like and Tokyo can’t do a thing about them.

It is the same in your country. You have radical Muslim clerics calling for the death of Jews and your Government can’t stop them.

What those museums say about control and stability isn’t a lie, its true, at least in part (from a nationalists point of view at least).

Japan progressed VERY rapidly, it modernized almost overnight but it found itself an isolated island surrounded by so called ‘backwards neighbors’ who were being invaded and influenced by European marauders and imperialists. Japan saw itself being surrounded by whites on all sides who banded together and who wanted it to acquiesce just like China and co did, and to accept the same kind of unequal treaties as them.

Japan wanted an empire and it saw itself as being a unifying force that could throw out the whites and build a single Asian block under its control. At least that’s how a Japanese nationalist sees things, and they actually believed that it would be better than white rule.

It’s not all black and white, from one perspective America did force Japan to act by cutting it off from resources and pressuring it into unequal treaties (Think Perry, Japan wasn’t about to let a humiliation like that happen again).

Remember, America said that Iraq supposedly forced it to act by ‘threatening it with WMD’ and that it says that it is bringing stability to the middle east by ruling Iraq. Is this so very different?


13. dishuiguanyin left...
Saturday, 5 November 2005 6:14 pm

1)"Japan is appalling at international dialog with China". Fair enough. I only said that they seem to be learning from the 6-party talks. And they obviously respect Beijing enough to agree to have bi-lateral talks with the DPRK there. I hope this signals the beginning of a period of learning-how-to-have-a-dialogue-with-the-Chinese. (Which it must be admitted, is a pretty difficult skill to learn for many nations.)

2) I'm afraid that the world's media (not just China's media, but the entire world's media) aren't going to pay the slightest regard to that distinction. As far as they are concerned, whatever a government official does is being done by the official, not by the private citizen. That's one of the responsibilities that officials have to accept along with the privilages that belong to their positions. And I'm sure Kozumi is intelligent enough to know this.

3) Ok, that's fine. I asked who ran these museums, and you've told me it's the religious bodies. I accept that this means that the government can't interfere. But...what about all those moderate Buddhist and Shinto priests you told us about? Are they happy to have the nationalists making such a noise in their shrine?

From my limited experience of Japan (two weeks in 1999) I agree that the nationalists are pretty much treated as a joke by the majority of the Japanese people. Thus why are the Japanese people happy to allow nationalist propoganda in such a high-profile position?

And it really doesn't matter how logical this argument all seems to the nationalists. The fact is, the nationalist propoganda in the Yasukuni Shrine Museum(s) upsets the Chinese, the Koreans, plenty of other south-east Asians, and more than a few Americans and Europeans. Also, please remember that two wrongs don't make a right. The parallels between some of the nationalist ideology and the current US situation in Iraq are obvious, but these parallels do not make EITHER position correct.

I don't want to know about how logic can be twisted. I'm happy to accept that this is a religious problem and that the government is powerless to intervene. I just want to know what the ordinary Japanese citizens and the nice, moderate priests think about this situation, and whether any of them have tried to change/tone down/remove the nationalist propoganda.


14. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Saturday, 5 November 2005 7:18 pm

Dishuiguanyin-senpai

No offence, but you're thinking too much like a white.

Japan never had movements like the suffragettes, the civil rights movement, or the temperance movement. It is still very much a country where nobody speaks out.

It is the Japanese way not to do anything that would disrupt the semblance of harmony. This means both that you don’t create a fuss, and that you don’t do anything to acknowledge or counter people who create a fuss because this in turn creates a bigger fuss.

People in Japan have to feel very strongly before they speak out, nationalists of course do feel strongly and so do speak out. Moderates however don’t feel strongly and don’t speak out in their own defence or against the nationalist.

Moderates who speak out also don’t get as much publicity as the nationalists, especially not in China. For example, you know all about the Fusosha textbook, but did you know that parents in Suginami Ward filed with the Tokyo District Court to try and force their local schools not to use it?

Long story short, nationalists shout loudly and get a lot of publicity. Ordinary people don’t like it, but they usually keep their heads.

Of course, there doen't have to actually be anything of substance for China to complain about, if there is nothing happening today, they revisit a story that was broadcast yesterday.

When you talk about priests, you are aware that Shinto (the religion that Yasukuni is dedicated to) doesn’t have ordained priests in the same way that your western churches do, aren’t you.

Just about anybody can set themselves up as a Shinto priest without having to attend any kind of seminary school or even having to be appointed by another priest. Think preacher rather than Padre.


15. dishuiguanyin left...
Sunday, 6 November 2005 12:17 am

Actually, CCTV International (CCTV9) has been very generous in its coverage of liberal protests in Japan recently. We saw several protests about that-ruddy-textbook run by Japanese people for Japanese people. We also saw some anti-nationalist protests around the anniversary of Hiroshima. Also, all the Japanese foreign teachers I've met in China, whilst obviously not being your average Japanese citizens (because if they were they wouldn't be in China) have been pretty good about expressing their disapproval of certain things in their delightfully quiet and polite Japanese way. Thus I wanted to know whether any quiet, polite liberals had said anything about it.

I have only just noticed the comment by Kushibo above, I must have missed it before, which states:

"Many apologists for Japan think it is merely a memorial for war dead but the museum on the grounds promotes a self-serving and amnesia-ridden justification for Japanese aggression." and "Japan needs to make a clean break from this, but the far-right knows that clean break will weaken them. This could get nasty."

I'm just asking, how many Japanese people think like this? How many of them have at least said something (even if they haven't done anything)?

And those Buddhist and Shinto priests. It doesn't seem to matter whether a religion has a specially-educated priesthood or not, the religious leaders generally expouse the same spectrum of opinions on moral and "political" matters as the laiety they serve. You claim that:

"Actually, Yasakuni isn't really run by far right loons. A lot of the people there are just ordinary priests, they want the war criminals to be there because they believe that everybody should be there without exception if they fought for Japan. Not because they want to engage in some kind of sick glorification of war criminals."

What do these ordinary priests think about having a museum that "promotes a self-serving and amnesia-ridden justification for Japanese aggression," in the grounds of their shrine? Have they ever mentioned it? Said anything? Or not?

(Personally, I agree that everyone who dies in a war should be entitled to a memorial, providing that memorial does not encourage us to think that whatever crimes that person may have committed were justified or "right". Thus I believe that even Hitler is entitled to a memorial, providing that memorial does not contain or promote any kind of national socialist ideology.

Actually, as a pacifist, I believe that every war memorial in every country should be allowed and encouraged, providing that it focuses on the tragic loss of life caused by war rather than on any form of nationalism or glorification.)


16. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Sunday, 6 November 2005 12:56 am

You don’t half ask a lot of questions dishuiguanyin-senpai

CCTV 9 doesn’t count for squat. 1) it’s in English and 2) half of China can’t receive it (I haven’t couldn’t receive it for over a year and my local TV rebroadcaster said that it didn’t do CCTV 9 at all). It has to be on CCTV 1 and introduced by Dashan or the chick in the military uniform for it to count.

I can name you one very famous Japanese man who thinks like this, his name is 本多勝一 (Honda Katsuichi), he wrote 南京への道 (Road to Nanjing) and 中国の旅 (Travels in China), his books are available in Chinese and English as well as Japanese and he has fought tooth and nail to defeat nationalist distortions and to expose them. If ever anybody says that people in Japan don’t know the truth, pull a copy of one of these out and show them. They contain more about Japanese war crimes than many Chinese history books and are on sale or order in every good bookstore in Japan.

This isn’t a Buddhist thing as Yasukuni is NOT a Buddhist shrine (I’ve said this about a million times), and as Shinto has no structure so there are no actual spokespeople or news letters like in Christian settings, I can’t gauge what the overall opinion is so you’re just going to have to ask a Shinto priest what they feel and each one will give a slightly different answer. Yes, priests have spoken out, but not especially loudly in most cases.

I’d say that the older priests probably won’t openly admit to knowing what all of the fuss is about and will are equally likely to argue that everybody must be there and must be remembered in the same way, or that anything that pollutes the shrine should be kept out (purity and the expulsion of pollution are tenants of Shinto).

The younger priests however are probably going to be more open to the political aspects and again I can’t speak for them. I also don’t know a single English or Chinese speaking priest that I could put you in touch with. Try using Google.

The nationalistic priests however will naturally congregate in places like Yasukuni so you’re not looking at a representative picture if you go there either.

When I said that priests were not trained like they are in the west, maybe I should have said that any raving nationalist can call himself a priest whether or not he knows how to be one, and then he can run around and put up museums to war criminals in his back room if he so chooses.

The moderates though do outnumber the nationalists many times over.


17. Laythstag left...
Sunday, 6 November 2005 12:11 pm

This is a shinto shrine in Washington, USA.

Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America & Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Shrine Director: Rev. K. Barrish 17720 Crooked Mile Rd. Granite Falls, Washington 98252 ph. 360-691-6389 - fax. 360-691-6389 email: Kannushi@TsubakiShrine.com website: http://www.tsubakishrine.com/test/home.asp


18. sun bin left...
Monday, 7 November 2005 3:29 am :: http://sun-bin.blogspot.com

1. Not only CCTV English Channel, many chinese media also made a lot of effort to show the 'good' japanese, eg, the writer who wrote about 731 (bio-weapon in Manchuria) is well known in China. The reason is very simple: to demonstrate support and show that many Japanese are "on our side".

Again, if you read Chinese official statement. every time they made the clear distinction of the far-right and the 'peaceful japanese people'. this has always been their party line and 'strategy', if you would call that. most western media, and many chinese nationalists chose to ignore that, for different reaons.

2. (even the chinese) recognize that there is no way to shut down yasukuni or change it. it is part of the freedom of speech deal. however, to defend them as neutral priest is self-denial, IMHO. this will not help either japan itself, or a peaceful asia in future.

3. i also found it unbelievable that many japanese honestly believe koizumi has not done anything wrong in dealing with China, and that it was all the fault of chemistry and attitude and 'failing ot appease'.


19. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Monday, 7 November 2005 4:46 pm

Laythstag

There are actually quite a few Shinto shrines in the US and Hawaii, though few as big as Tsubaki.


20. The Angry Chinese Blogger left...
Monday, 7 November 2005 4:55 pm

sun bin

1) Honestly I don't watch CCTV one all that much, I'm more of a 星空 fan. But I have noticed that one of the BIG problems is that China can't seem to talk about anything god in Japan without compairing it to something bad. For example they seemingly can't talk about the increasing integration of Chinese and Japanese economies without mentioning WWII. Even if it is not relevent to the topic. If you keep raising WWII, it wil make healing much harder by keeping things at the forefront of people's minds.

2) You might not belive this, but there are a great many people in Japan who believe that Tojo and co are both bloodthirsty murderers and that they should be named on a war memorial because they think htat everybody involved should have a memorial regardless of guilt. It's all part of the Japanese perspective, which is different in many areas from the Chinese.

3) Apart from Yasakuni, can you name me something that Prime Minister Koizumi has done that is wrong by both Chinese standards and would be considered wrong by the international comunity. I can't really defend or denounce him unless I know what's on your mind.